Curse

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Personally, i am straight pissed with ANet for nerfing AoE, by doing that they wiped out an entire stran of skills, and stripped them of nearly all their usefulness. I was particularlly angry that Smiting prayers, ontop of the already cruddy skills, got further. . . um . . . cruddier? So i thought about a solution.

This is the current grid for Balthazars Aura (just for an example)

For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to target ally take 10...22 holy damage each second.

Smiting Level: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Damage: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

I would like to see it become something like this:

For 20 seconds, foes adjacent to target ally take 10...22 holy damage, the damage triggers every 5...2 seconds.

Smiting Level: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Damage: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
Triggers: 6 5 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2

I would like to see this format adopted for EVERY AoE SPELL, this means the skills will actually be useful outside PvP and for scattering enemies while running, and will not be as effective as triggering every second, but this means THE AoE SKILLS CAN STILL BE USED, AND CAN STILL BE EFFECTIVE in PvE play, it will not kill enemies as easily as it did pre-nerf and if someone REALLY wants to sit there for twice as long, they can, but its just a waste of time. It pains me to see so many skills devoted to AoE (they even duplicated/added some more in Factions) that go wasted in PvE play.

Your thoughts?

derrtyboy69 · Apr 05, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

SS will stay incredibly more powerful and popular, not solving a whole lot.

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Well they can do what they will with SS, come on, do you really think they'll let SS STAY this powerful? And i never said anyhting about SS, it's not considered an AoE spell, im only focusing on those tha are considered AoE

Prefectus · Apr 05, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

/signed AOE FOR LIFE

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Thank you

swordfisher · Apr 05, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Maybe only the pulse time should be variable, and the damage should be set (and high). With your numbers, balth aura with 8 in smiting does 17 damage every 3 seconds. It makes the lower stat ranges disproportionately weak.

The idea itself is interesting though, and varying the 'pulse' on a skill would make for some interesting possibilities.

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Well chances are you wont use those skills unless you invest 9-12 points into smiting, for example im still tryin to come up with a fully viable PvE smiter, and Symbol of wrath/Balthazars aura are useless to me

Minus Sign · Apr 05, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I'm not certain what you want here. By increasing trigger times are you hoping Anet will re-adopt the old AI system that had mobs stand in place (which has the side effect of reducing spike potential of the spell since it does less damage in a short period of time), or do you feel that by increasing the time of the spell, more of the actual AoE damage will be distributed through its spell effect?

If the former, then no. multiple AoE spells can still be spammed atop one another and the game would be too easy.

If the later, a contitional sign, since AoE does need some help and increased AoE time is one way of rebuffing spells that have been seriously nerfed by Anet.

The only problem i see with this is the hot foot issue in PvP. Increasing spell duration--even at a lose of damage per second--can be abused by pvP groups to create a 20 second trap hitting every 2 seconds; changing PvP dynamic by making certain areas less accessable for a longer period of time. How do you plan to balance that issue?

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

I care not for PvP, so i really didnt take that into account, i guess they could make AoE spells have a sort of well/ward animation, and they could theoretically add a "Remove -----" spell that removes them, thats getting a little fancy, but thats just what i came up with while reading your response

As for the multiple AoE spells, it's simple, only allow 1 AoE spell to be active at one time, if the were to use a well/ward type animation the rule would just be, as long as a ---- is active, another ---- cannot be cast withing it;s i dunno, aggro circle, there are ways around the problems, ultimately ALL i want to see, is for ANet to restore the usefulness of AoE spells in the PvE world, and this triggering time is what i thought would be the best solution

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

And to answer your first question, what i wanted t achieve was to yes resotre the old AI, but they wont be standing there for the duration of the spell so it doesnt do more dmg (unless your soloing) because chances are they will die before the spell has a chance to fully run through it lasting time. I never intended it to do more dmg, its actually the same as it was previously when it triggers every 2 seconds, when it triggers 3+ it does less damage

Goonter · Apr 05, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I dont know how much more effective this AoE shift could be.
Ive always thought that damage over time AoEs should recast quickly. That way if your not doing damage (because people will scatter) your controlling a space.
Where as, instant AoEs should cast quickly. That way you can take advantage of group of clumped up people before they move from the area.

I'm not making any strong examples, but lets say ...chaos storm and firestorm. 10 seconds duration 30 seconds recharge. Foe gets hit for 2 seconds and then moves out of the way, try again 30 seconds later.
With 10 seconds duration and 10 seconds recharge then you can keep your foes on the move with these skills.
Or a skill like Rodgorts Invocation. 3 seconds cast 15 second recharge. The recharge is real good. If the size of the AoE was increased to Energy Surge then a 2 second cast would make this skill damn lethal. Or simply, a 1 second cast so those moments of oppertunity can pay off.

As far as AoEs sucking againts mobs... mobs spread during an AoE just like people do. Mobs should adapt more human behaviors imo, like not attacking through SS when grouped up or without a healer covering him.
If they are smarter then all skills can be readjusted to be useful in PvP while not abusive in PvE and visa versa.

Mandy Memory · Apr 05, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

This would make all of AoE worse than it already is...

So of course I disagree...

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I dont think AoE spells should be reduced to area controlling spells like your sort of suggesting, theres a reason they do damage, if you want to control an area go take a look back to Diablo II they had item mods with "blah blah blah % chance to make monster flee" im sure they could add a sort of ward for making enemies scatter, but it shouldnt be an AoE's job to scatter them

I agree that AI should be more human, somewhat, but you cant make them too smart, or going through PvE will be just like going through PvP, long and hard, i dont want to spend 3 minutes killing a mob of 8 enemies, when there are hundreds more that have to die, if the experience they gave, quality/quantity of items dropped both rose, then i;d be fine, but ultimately if you make the enemies too hard and too smart, then you'll be getting significantly less items and experience, and the game will move like sludge and nobody will get very far.

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

This would make all of AoE worse than it already is...

So of course I disagree...

How so? Please delve

Goonter · Apr 05, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

I never played Diablo 2 so I cant go back.
All DotAoEs are area control as to how they are reacted towards. This seems realistic because if they arent scattering players they're killing players. I think my suggestion would make them better at both.

We both agree that AI should be more human. How human is up for debate. Id say, depending on the mob, the smartest ones are human enough to..
-Know if its killing itself and act accordingly
-If its not being effective against its target to switch to another one
-Mitigate the damage of threating foes.
-Pressure the defensive support.

And then there can be stupid mobs that stand in AoEs and other mobs that are as smart as everything inbetween being really smart or really dumb.

Minus Sign · Apr 05, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Ok, then no. AoE AI response was implemented to prevent overfarming. They aren't going back.

EDIT: and i wasn't suggesting they would become Area controllers. I'm telling you what 20 seconds of damage in AoE will become. Thats a set and forget nuke trap.

SaintGreg · Apr 05, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I don't see how that would make it any more useful as it would still trigger the AoE running but would do less damage (ie make them useless in both PvE and PvP)

Goonter · Apr 05, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

I was thinking an increased duration would be nice alternative buff, but like Minus said, it is a set and forget nuke.
By increasing its recharge instead you get almost the same effect except it takes more time and energy to keep the nuke going and its easier to disrupt. On the plus side, its sustainable and more moble.

I think you bring up a good point Toxic. Most DoT AoEs are unattractive in PvE as well as PvP. The reasons are the same, it takes a lot of additional effort to make them work because nothing is going to stand it if it doesnt have too. How can it be reworked? Well, at least we are giving out ideas.

Minus Sign · Apr 05, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Well, the obvious buff is the one thats been suggested the most: reduce recharge times so that you can use AoE more often. Their own mana costs make them inhibitivly cost ineffective to spam, but its still good if you can improve their use by improving the number of times you can use them. when you see a good AoE situation, you should be able to exploit it, making AoE spells (if not as effective) near the level of meteor in usefulness.

Mandy Memory · Apr 05, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

How so? Please delve

10x10 = 100

10 x (20/6) = 30

You just made a spell that did 100 damage at 0 smiting do 30....having the monsters flee and go back in would have been more effective...